Hello from Marinade.finance. Let’s get mSOL on Mango
Marinade is the biggest liquid staking on Solana, with currently over 7M SOL TVL. Key points of Marinade are:
- Users stake their SOL to Marinade, Marinade manages the staking account and delegate the stake to over 400 validators using open formula
- Stakers are issued a derivative SPL token mSOL. It’s fungible and its price appreciates every epoch as staking rewards are distributed from the validators to Marinade and get re-staked.
- mSOL holders can exit anytime, selling the mSOL on the open market with deep liquidity (liquidity on Serum, pools on Saber, Raydium, Orca, Aldrin … ) or unstake from Marinade directly.
- through this mSOL becomes the best collateral, appreciating every epoch and is always redeemable
- Marinade decentralizes Solana by increasing the Nakamoto coefficient - delegating the stake away from the security group.
- Marinade is open with no sale or IDO and to VC backing. Mango users, community, and anyone can join the forming Marinade DAO and help steer the decisions.
Adoption: mSOL is available in SOL/USDC/USDT/ETH/BTC and other pairs across the Solana ecosystem and on FTX. Similar case: mSOL is used as collateral on all major lending protocols: Port, Larix, Solend
Liquidity https://twitter.com/solana_daily/status/1460223557187686401?t=lAvNPHrxgcLRvDzzVtmvcg&s=19 Novmber 15 market slice. mSOL has sufficient ($10M) or outstanding ($100M) liquidity across major AMMs and pairs.
Security: 3 publicly available audits: FAQ - Marinade.Finance
Stats: open statistics https://stats.marinade.finance
Price Feeds: feeds from Pyth and Switchboard available now, Chainlink available soon
Technical: Anchor IDL - Marinade.Finance
Current benefits: By supplying mSol as collateral on Mango Markets, traders will be able to strategize earning on their staked SOL and borrowing against mSOL for spot purchases and perpetual futures trading.
Future benefits: if other open markets can be plugged into Mango Markets, additional liquidity on Orca ($140M), Atrix ($60M), Aldrin ($55M) and more can further support the mSOL liquidity for liquidations.
Risk: we suggest starting with the same parameters as SOL.
Optionally, if accepted, we will follow up with a proposal to extend MNDE liquidity mining to Mango mSOL depositors.
I definitely support and would personally use staked SOL as collateral, but with limited slots it seems like it would be better to use an aggregate token as opposed to only supporting a single liquid staking token. The only one I know of on Solana currently is aSol, though it’s not currently very widely used.
That being said, I’m not sure what the timeline is on v4+ and additional slots, and Marinade is by far the most widely used liquid staking token, so maybe it’s not worth the delay. We shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
listing mSOL would allow us to lower the perp funding for all SOL longs. real no-brainer.
I think mSOL makes a lot of sense right now and is worth burning a spot for. Potentially that means adding aSol instead as a catchall? My only worry is that aSol is potentially not as battle tested as mSol, and exposes Mango to one more layer of smart contracts. The smarter guys in the room will have a better sense of risk/reward there.
Full disclosure: I have mSOL but not aSOL.
I wouldn’t call it a no-brainer. I’d rather that if Mango lists something, it’s further down the stack, so that we don’t compound risk.
afaik, when you cash out of aSOL you end up getting a share of the basket, so you would (currently) get a mixture of mSOL and Lido Staked SOL. I don’t want to get involved with Lido - personal decision, given their winner-takes-all approach and view of staking, and my own interest in furthering staking decentralization.
If aSOL is the only option, I would keep my staked SOL off Mango.
Working with Marinade, I am obviously biased for mSOL, but let me try to make an objective case why aSOL is not a good decision right now:
- aSOL is trying to solve the political problem of not picking a staking pool winner, that makes sense
- inside, aSOL is 99.9% mSOL, so while the problem is legit, the reality does not show the problem solved. Yet?
- it’s unclear who and how decides which stake pools can be included into aSOL. For a project aimed at the political layer of the whole ecosystem, this should probably be an open conversation.
- it’s unclear if those stake pools have the same or a different risk factor
- aSOL features an exit fee, locking the underlying capital within its capusle. That’s not a good UX. Theoretically, you can exit it in an open market, but the liquidity is not there.
- in the current composition, the inclusion of any other derivative into aSOL means less decentralization for Solana, not more. That’s coming from a perspective where Lido stakes to top20, Marinade excludes the security group and stakes to 400 validators. This last point might not be as important for Mango, it’s important for Marinade
As a user of Marinade, I can say that having mSOL on Mango Markets would be really pleasing.
I can only approve what Gekonn and PlayerOfBits have mentionned about decentralization. mSOL is fighting to raise the security and decentralization of the Solana blockchain and I feel that Mango has similar objectives.
On the topic of compounding risk: as far as I can tell, aSOL is run by a single developer, 0xAurelion, who joined Github just before publishing the project.
Maybe Crate is doing the heavy lifting and aSOL itself is a thin wrapper, (haven’t gone through the source), but that would give me pause.
Just to clarify, I wrote my previous post on mobile, didn’t mean to quote @mfenn’s post. I don’t think we should use aSOL but mSOL purely out of a short term liquidity / risk perspective. We can list tokens like aSOL, stSOL or socSOL further down the line.
I do agree, that there is an issue with centralizing stake and I’d like for the Marinade team to improve their product in that direction, so that we can be comfortable supporting their project without inhibiting the decentralization of the Solana validator set.
Marinade is totally open to fix anything we can. We want to not just build the right thing, but to build it right. But we cannot prevent anyone from launching their own staking pool with whatever parameters and get included into the aSOL. As it should be
Here I will need to ask more input. How is Marinade centralizing its stake?
Great points, thanks for the info
As a Mango markets user and Marinade user, I would reallu love to see mSOL here. They have an amazing team and community and I totally agree with the points made above on decentralisation.
I fully think that integrating mSol would provide a lot of value to current traders depositing their Sol into mango. If there’s more opportunities in the industry for us to use our tokens in other products while still earning yield and supporting the network, it seems like a simple decision to make.
Im glad max brought up lowering funding too because that’s a keypoint that I didn’t consider, would be extremely beneficial to overall rates on mango. The boost in liquidity and deposited mSol is a simpler component imo.
DeFi users that have already staked their Sol with marinade would have an all in one platform to borrow against their mSol and trade, which I think opens up a lot of arbitrage and trading strategies for the community. Even just 10% of marinade’s tvl deposited into mango (7m Sol = $1.5b, roughly 700k Sol or $157.9m) would dwarf the currently deposited Sol and allow for a larger set of users the ability to use mango as their go-to borrowing platform for mSol.
The argument for an aggregated product like aSol doesn’t make any sense to me in comparison to mSol, as the product isn’t utilized across an abundance of projects nor does it have a borrowing/lending market that can provide an example of its benefit/why it should be added like mSol has.
Very biased but i also want to see this go through so that we can create mSol-Mngo liquidity pools for the community to benefit from. Would end up providing a lot more liquidity to mango while paying out Mnde rewards to holders. Think that this would become a solid step into creating more opportunities for mango to earn with their treasury and provide new options for the community to pursue.