Big Compensation Round

Hello Mango DAO,

Due to insufficient tech and a lack of guiding principles around compensation, we’ve been paralyzed on sending out the MNGOs. I think we should take a hybrid approach just send out what we can now, and just make some commitments to send out locked tokens when the tech is available. That being said, we still need to figure out principles around compensation. I don’t really have any guiding principle here, except that it should be generous and more remunerative than taking a regular software job.

On Mango’s side, it’s crucial that we get new devs. Much of what would be handled by lawyers, accountants, secretaries in centralized organizations must actually be handled by developers in Mango DAO. For example, figuring out some incentive alignment scheme and implementing might be done by accountants or lawyers in a company, but devs have to do it in Mango. Developers are also going to be better at governance because they understand more of the underlying tech and limitations. A benefit of compensating generously is we get more administrative leeway. We don’t need to keep a tight schedule of payments in the early days to keep people motivated.

For the developers, it’s important that they’re compensated for the extra risks they’re taking. They’re working for a DAO and contributing without much formal guarantee of compensation. For most of them, they have to learn something new to be able to contribute. They also have to think through some thorny tax/accounting issues due to their jurisdiction. We should compensate with this in mind.

So I’m proposing the following amounts:

microwavedcola - 10m MNGO locked 5 years OR 100k USDC + 9m locked

mcola seems fairly committed to Mango and has been pushing many features. He has also started learning the Mango financial design and is rebuilding it in Anchor. He and Christian are among the few who have taken the time to read through the mango source code. I think mcola’s breadth of skills and demonstrated value add is going to be important for our growth.

Christian Kamm (ckds) - 10m MNGO locked 5 years OR 100k USDC + 9m locked
Christian has already mentioned some of what he’s accomplished so far and asked for a smaller amount: https://forum.mango.markets/t/grant-for-mango-and-solana-performance-improvements/. I talked to him, and he said he has thoroughly enjoyed working on Mango and can see himself doing for a “few years”. For what it’s worth, I find Christian to be very thorough and precise. He has gained a decent amount of experience with the validator code which is a big gap in our collective skillset.

iwillnotsaveyou - 1m MNGO locked 5 years OR 10k USDC + 900k locked MNGO
He spends much of his day on our discord and has been answering more complex market making / financial questions to noobs. He’s also been providing liquidity and integrating more thoroughly. I hope he is able to acquire much more unlocked MNGOs via liquidity mining :stuck_out_tongue: But still, I think we should increase his formal voting power and recognize his contribution.

People who still need a short blurb for this round: dboures, ImpossiblePairs, rjpeterson. I or Max will add those people in the coming days.

I’d appreciate any thoughts or push back on this. The piece I’m least confident on is the amount of lockup period. More immediate payments or having some portion unlocking in a year might be less harsh and allows for more peace of mind.

If no pushback, I’ll put up proposals to send out unlocked funds and just add language in the DAO proposal with a promise on the locked funds.

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As a potential grantee: Wow, that sounds great! A grant of this size would definitely incentivize me to continue doing my best to make Mango flourish long term. Let’s do this!

On the lockup period: Yeah, five years is pretty harsh. For people who want to work on Mango full-time, the 100k USDC would not cover living expenses during the lockup period.

I suggest to incrementally unlock tokens while keeping the long-term bias. How about unlocking 5% after the first year, then another 10%, 15%, 20%, 50% over the following years?

As the DAO, I’d also prefer to have some form of oversight and leverage against people disappearing: If a grant unlocks gradually over multiple years, maybe the DAO could have the ability to pass a vote to cancel future parts? (I haven’t yet read up on how locked tokens will be implemented, not sure if that’s possible)

If that were done, I’d expect unlocking should be a bit closer to linear over time though, to compensate for the added risk.

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Hi ckds.
I was thinking on an idea of a fiat loan using MNGO as collateral (locked or unloked), I am happy to explore this again and modify as necessary to make it attractive to developers.

Don’t want to name names or shame anyone – but I think a lot of people who got contributor allocations early on-- UNLOCKED – are not really doing much these days – and not even remotely what these guys mentioned in OP are doing. Which is probably a testament to the problem of not doing any locking

Anyway, we could waste tons of time finding some perfect compensation scheme and principles.

In the meantime, these contributors deserve compensation, immediately.

I will vote in favour of this as soon as its up

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I would gladly provide USDC loans on favourable terms against locked MNGO collateral (although I would like to hear more details about how the locking works, because if it’s transferrable it’s not quite locked – unless locked just means you cant vote in the DAO?)

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although I would like to hear more details about how the locking works, because if it’s transferrable it’s not quite locked – unless locked just means you cant vote in the DAO

My understanding is that locked tokens shall be usable for voting in DAO governance, but must not be transferable.

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HI AusteritySucks,
The idea is still a work in progress and it is very much open for suggestions.

I discussed it with Max before the Multicoin proposal for locking MNGO and basically is as Ckds mentions in his comment made earlier than this answer:

A way for the token holders to vote in the DAO, but their tokens to be locked and not transferrable during the full term of the loan.

For this to happen, the loan must be a fixed term loan with no possibility for early redemption (we can find a creative mechanism such a secondary market for the loans for extra functionality).

And in case of a default, the borrower will lose his tokens and also the right to vote with them in the DAO. But the lender will not be able to transfer the tokens until the end of the fixed term of the loan or locking period (maybe he will be able to sell in the secondary market this loked tokens at a discount) and we have to think what will happen with the corresponding rights to vote in the DAO.

The above can lead us to think in a method of implementing the Multicoin locks proposal and then build on top of that the borrowing mechanism using the locked tokens.

And from your comment above, maybe we can also think on implementing a pool that will be the one lending the money on favourable terms to the developers and creating a scoring mechanism for the borrowers with some quantitative and some qualitative measurements.

Any new updates on this?
I’d give a +1 on ckds’s suggestion of gradual unlocking of locked MNGO.
How close is the locking mechanism to being finished? If it is still going to be more than a couple weeks, I support the idea of sending out an unlocked portion first and “starting the clock” of the to-be-sent-out locked MNGO.

I’m in favor of rewarding people’s commitment to building Mango, not just as a potential grantee, but also because it’s a great way to attract more attention and talent towards that end, making it even more desirable to build. I also think having more people involved will likely result in more ideas and discussion for the path ahead, especially if those people have the ability to shape that with their voting power.

As @ckds has mentioned though, a 5 year lockup period is quite rough for a lot of people looking to make this their full-time focus. I think a staged unlock would be more practical as bills will still need to be paid. Personally, I think it’d be fine to heavily skew the rewards toward the end of the locking period so that the carrot is ever present in the distance, but staging in a few unlocks along the way is another motivating way to keep it real / tangible in addition to the voting power.

I also don’t have a problem with the DAO having the ability to claw some of it back as I have faith that the DAO will act in good faith and only do this in circumstances that can’t be remedied elsewise.

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On locked-token infrastructure: Follow #dev-governance and its “locked tokens for grants” thread on discord for the latest updates on the technical side. In summary, microwavedcola and me are building the Solana program based on work by Armani, Maximilian will look at governance-ui updates, and daffy, armani, SebastianBor are helping with questions and reviews.

The current intention is to build linear monthly vesting for these grants and to give the DAO the ability to claw back any non-vested tokens (for grants only) through government proposals.

Timeline: I’d be surprised if everything was deployed in less than a month. That’s because the governance addin we’re building is critical infrastructure for the DAO - all voters will need to deposit to it, instead of directly to spl-governance - which means audits and layered testing. Plus I imagine there must be a DAO vote to apply the config change to the DAO’s governance program once everything is ready.

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If a 5 year lock period is too much, we can always find ways to extend credit using the locked MNGO as collateral as long as this locked MNGO is fully owned/earned by the developer and there is no chance for a clawback on it.

The reason for requesting this kind of credit is that the developer believes MNGO will go up faster that the interest rate charged on the loan, and this by itself is a positive signal to the markets.

And if we start accepting MNGO as collateral for loans, maybe in the future the crypto lending companies such as Celsius, Blockfi, Nexo, etc. and other kind of companies may also start taking MNGO as collateral, increasing its desirability.

Did any of these payments ever go out? Or did this just get set aside until token locking was finished?

yeah, i’d expect those to become proposals in the next week

it is possible to create a collateral mechanism that signs the rights to blocked MNGOS and the possibility of making a collateral crediting transaction by transferring ownership rights to blocked MNGOS.

the devs working on this prevented it with as much technical means as possible, if you find a way to make it work let us know